Another difference. Republicans just convinced Europe that the USA cannot be trusted anymore as a commercial and defence party, and new deals should be made with the rest of the world to move away from the Dollar.
I fucking hope, but we already seen that at 1st Trump term and after Biden was elected entire EU again got back to licking US boot, including something as unbelivable as fully allowing nordstream sabotage.
It don’t though, it just rises the price of energy because the gas still flows, even more than before, just from USA, Norway and yes, sill Russia, even more of it, but through middlemen. The sabotage also caused significant ecological catastrophe in the Baltic.
About the sabotage itself you have three versions available:
Truth, that USA bombed it, possibly with participation of Norway (note above paragraph, curiously the very same countries that gained the most on it, qui bono, eh?)
USA version, where Ukraine did it, despite lacking means
Official German/EU version, that is no version, because both above versions means that Germany is either vassal (ver1) or war ally (ver2) of country which attacked Germany in a biggest peacetime sabotage in German history.
It made it painfully clear to the public opinion how much society relies on gas.
Unfortunately the general public doesn’t understand long term reasoning: nor climate change, nor energy independence. If it doesn’t happen right now, it’s ignored by most people. The high spike in price worked really well to open a debate to support more renewables or nuclear power.
Consider that even now, after all that happened, the EU has a noisy minority trying to shoot down alternatives to gas.
libs be believing dem politicans lip service when they never do anything about it, but the one time their politician says something and actually does it, they don’t believe it.
FYI: in the EU we don’t play the “it was Biden vs it was Trump” game. We stop at “it was the US”. Besides marginal sympathy for some presidents or over the top ridiculous facts, US politics is not that visible or interesting here.
In seiner Stellungnahme gegenüber „t-online.de“ führte Reimer weiter aus, dass er Brosius-Gersdorf, deren Wahl vor einer Woche aufgrund mangelnder Unterstützung innerhalb der Unionsfraktion ausgesetzt worden war, als Aktivistin wahrnehme, „die über eine Neuinterpretation des Grundgesetzes ein deutsches ,Roe v. Wade‘ erreichen will“. Darin sehe er einen „Bruch mit der gesamten bisherigen Rechtsprechung des Bundesverfassungsgerichts zu Art. 2 Abs. 2 GG“. Jener Artikel besagt: „Jeder hat das Recht auf Leben und körperliche Unversehrtheit. Die Freiheit der Person ist unverletzlich. In diese Rechte darf nur auf Grund eines Gesetzes eingegriffen werden.“
I doubt that US extortion will be reversed in any future DNC election victory. Only antagonism, and resulting colapse of US, which has yet to be manifested, will result in reversal.
You literally just said that it was because of Republicans that the EU soured on the US and now you’re telling me that in the EU you don’t look at which party is in charge but at the US as a whole. Do you not see how these statements are contradictory?
He says that because you weren’t paying as much tribute as he would like, which is why he ordered you to increase military spending and y’all went and did it, and then had Mark Rutte kiss his ass in appreciation. 😂
My dear, the NATO military spending has been ignored for long time. Now it was decided to reach it to replace the US that stopped being a reliable partner.
No, that one belongs in the shared space too. It was Biden who literally bombed the infrastructure that made it possible for Germany to meet its energy needs without reliance on buying US oil/lng. Who froze all foreign assets that belonged to Afghanistan, essentially stealing billions of dollars that belonged to the Afghani people? Biden. Who froze all Russian assets and tried to make it illegal on a global scale to do business with “the bad guy” state? Biden. And while you may hate Russia if you’re a typical propagandized westerner, that doesn’t mean most of the rest of the world, particularly global south countries, do as well.
From 3 years ago:
“With Russia losing access to its foreign currency reserves, a message has been sent to all countries that they can’t count on these money stashes to actually be theirs in the event of tension. As such, it may make less and less sense for global reserve managers to hold dollars for safety, given that they could be taken away right when they’re most needed. Russia isn’t the first country to get this lesson in recent months. The Biden administration’s move to seize Afghanistan’s cash assets and prevent their access by the Taliban was another recent signal that reserves can be frozen.”
That was all thanks to the Democrats during the Biden regime. Trump is putting as many nails into that coffin as he can, but we shouldn’t pretend Republicans are the only ones responsible for showing the world that the dollar is dangerous and the US cannot be trusted.
Who froze all Russian assets and tried to make it illegal on a global scale to do business with “the bad guy” state? Biden. And while you may hate Russia if you’re a typical propagandized westerner, that doesn’t mean most of the rest of the world, particularly global south countries, do as well.
So you condone genocide as long as it’s done by “communists”. got it.
No man, sorry. European here and before this last Trump term nobody cared about the US, nor knew what people did over there.
Now we see all the craziness from Harvard to ICE, and the nonsense of vaccines and Medicare. Some people and companies are actively seeking alternatives to American products, we are talking about an European tech stack for the first time, a multi billion program just started to replace US in defence, there are funds specifically designed to attract American scientists, the EU is coming for startups too, and intense chats with Canada, China and others try to replace the US market.
You are free to believe that Dem were the same, but I can assure you that nothing like the last 6 months pushed the EU to break up with the US and stand up alone. Which is great for us in the old continent.
To tell the full story though, there are some EU groups that still try to tighten the bonds with the US. I’m talking about ECR and the Patriots with leaders such as Meloni and Wilders. They are the far right xenophobic homophobic nazi-fascist area that are basically a noisy minority that a few years ago was all for Putin.
Can you mention past American politics that affected the EU, excluding wars? Anything that sparkled debates and concerns at the level of Trump’s tariffs or declarations about NATO?
I say that, before Trump’s mess, in the EU we didn’t care much about what happened in the US or the decision that were taken there, except for wars or exceptional events like 9/11. Am I wrong?
Europeans may be a bit slow on the uptake, considering much of Europe is still imperial core and it’s all still the global north, but just because European liberals have been struggling to let go of the propaganda that the U.S. is a benevolent force for “order” in the world doesn’t mean that it is suddenly Trump alone that has irrevocably damaged U.S. soft power as well as a positive image of the U.S. in Europe.
and the nonsense of vaccines and Medicare
More examples of issues that were major in the “discourse” under Biden (and earlier). Come on.
Some people and companies are actively seeking alternatives to American products, we are talking about an European tech stack for the first time, a multi billion program just started to replace US in defence, there are funds specifically designed to attract American scientists, the EU is coming for startups too, and intense chats with Canada, China and others try to replace the US market.
And a lot of this takes longer planning than just the 6 months Trump has been in office again. You may not have been aware of it, but many were (I may not be a European, but I have been speaking with plenty of them especially since February of '22). The U.S. has been advertising the fact that its is tightening its leash on its vassals (you Europeans) for a while now, which in turn is unintentional but unconcealable admission that its empire is struggling. Those with eyes to see it, and there are many, most certainly have been watching since long before Trump. I won’t argue that Trump hasn’t ramped it up in terms of how blatant it is with his overt buffoonery and open fascism (as opposed to the Democrat’s false pretense of not being fascist), but to say it’s something that the Democrats do not share in, or haven’t deeply contributed to just as Trump has, well you’re burying your head in the sand.
I honestly don’t mean offense by this because it is so heavily dependent on what you hear in your MSM, but you and those who think this is new are slow on the uptake when compared to Europeans who closely follow this sort of thing, and Europe on the whole considering its relationship to US imperialism is going to be slow on the uptake compared to the rest of the world. And if we’re talking about the rest of the world beyond Europe already knowing these things, well let me just say: BRICS+. But honestly, if you think that even European leaders didn’t take a major fucking lesson from the blowing up of Nordstream, you’re… well, I guess just living under the same rock most of the population who gets their news from major outlets are living under - still doesn’t change the fact that the absolute dismantling of U.S. soft power and power projection (as “defenders” or as a country with whom deals and promises will be kept) is 100% a bipartisan project.
One characteristic of the European politics is that it’s slow. Painfully slow. With 27 countries with veto power and different interests it is certain that at any time you will have any possibility on the table together with its opposite.
Making an EU independent from the US has been certainly a dream for several groups since decades. The idea never got much traction because it seemed more convenient to go in the direction of a single market with the US for some kind of goods.
That was true until Trump’s second term with the tariffs, the NATO power play, and the BS around Greenland. Now there is no doubt that the EU should seek independence from the US and seek agreements with Canada and China first. The only question is how quickly it should be done because some countries (like Germany, Italy and Greece) have more to lose than others and there is the issue with Ukraine.
That said, you are free to think that with Biden it was all the same (or even worse).
One characteristic of the European politics is that it’s slow. Painfully slow.
The glacial pace of European politics helps prove my point. The fact that the pace is slightly quickening may or may not be because of Trump - like I said, I certainly wouldn’t argue against his undeniable increasing of the already rapidly deteriorating global image of the US as being trustworthy, but the whole point is that that deterioration was already happening when he got into office. Your original position is that it was not, that the Europeans feeling that the US cannot be trusted anymore and that the image of the dollar’s supremacy was waning, that all of that rests entirely on the shoulder of the Republicans when that is just demonstrably not true.
That said, you are free to think that with Biden it was all the same (or even worse).
You’re shifting the goalposts a bit there, since I never claimed it was “the same” only that it was already clearly well underway, which I have maintained throughout. Yes, I am free to recognize the objective reality of the situation, just as you are free to, for whatever odd reason, push against it to mistakenly insist that Trump is some sudden and unique outlier in the collapse of US image and power projection when that has demonstrably been going on since before him and will continue after, even if he is ramping up the rate of deterioration.
It’s funny because while we both acknowledge that we can have different opinions, you imply that mine is totally wrong.
Before Trump 2 the US was an ally, the cornerstone of NATO, the place where you want to go to have some kind of career, and so on. We can argue that something changed a bit over the decades, but America was always America. Even during Trump’s first term, for us at least, it was business as usual (despite lots of negative forecasts).
In the last few months all that certainty became questionable at least. I see a remarkable shift in politics, public opinion, and risk assessment at work. “Going European” is a widespread idea. Replacing the US in defence is now for the first time in history a funded project with an end date and clear objectives, including nuclear defence. Quite a few websites emerged to help consumers “buy European” or “check if it’s American”. For the first time in my life, boycotting US is no more something for rebellious teenagers full of ideologies, and people are at work to create here those things that we used to “just buy” from the US. The EU put on the table “the bazooka”: a legal instrument created to kick out China from the continent and that now some (like France) want to use against Trump.
But yeah, you can think that it all started years ago and that I have a secret agenda to defend Biden. Sure, why not?
As opposed to fucking what? Implying their own opinion is wrong? Implying that two mutually exclusive things are simultaneously true? The very definition of having an opinion means you think opposing opinions are wrong!
Another difference. Republicans just convinced Europe that the USA cannot be trusted anymore as a commercial and defence party, and new deals should be made with the rest of the world to move away from the Dollar.
I fucking hope, but we already seen that at 1st Trump term and after Biden was elected entire EU again got back to licking US boot, including something as unbelivable as fully allowing nordstream sabotage.
I don’t know what to believe about Nordstream, but I’m not even mad if that accelerates the transition out of fossil fuel.
It don’t though, it just rises the price of energy because the gas still flows, even more than before, just from USA, Norway and yes, sill Russia, even more of it, but through middlemen. The sabotage also caused significant ecological catastrophe in the Baltic.
About the sabotage itself you have three versions available:
Didn’t Biden basically announce the US was gonna do it before it happened?
Yup, and immediately after Polish Foreign Minister Sikorski, closely related to atlanticist circles, thanked USA for that.
Isn’t he married to Anne Applebaum?
Yes, as i mentioned, closely related to atlanticist circles.
It made it painfully clear to the public opinion how much society relies on gas.
Unfortunately the general public doesn’t understand long term reasoning: nor climate change, nor energy independence. If it doesn’t happen right now, it’s ignored by most people. The high spike in price worked really well to open a debate to support more renewables or nuclear power.
Consider that even now, after all that happened, the EU has a noisy minority trying to shoot down alternatives to gas.
https://youtube.com/shorts/FVbEoZXhCrM
libs be believing dem politicans lip service when they never do anything about it, but the one time their politician says something and actually does it, they don’t believe it.
When you put it that way, it is pretty unbelievable that a US politician would follow through on a promise 🤔
FYI: in the EU we don’t play the “it was Biden vs it was Trump” game. We stop at “it was the US”. Besides marginal sympathy for some presidents or over the top ridiculous facts, US politics is not that visible or interesting here.
Bullshit. German politics is riddled with the same talking points as the US. Just today i read a german article talking about a “german roe v wade”
Of course, also in the EU there are far right groups like ECR and Patriots. It doesn’t mean that they rule though.
BTW, I struggle to imagine Germans discussing certain topics using American terms.
Isn’t Germany pro-genocide across the political spectrum?
Yes, except maybe some from Die Linke.
https://www.die-tagespost.de/politik/katholischer-rechtswissenschaftler-ergaenzte-brosius-gersdorfs-wikipedia-eintrag-um-passage-zum-lebensschutz-art-265468
Indeed maybe the readers of a catholic newspaper are obsessed enough with abortion to know the reference.
What?
I doubt that US extortion will be reversed in any future DNC election victory. Only antagonism, and resulting colapse of US, which has yet to be manifested, will result in reversal.
What what?
You literally just said that it was because of Republicans that the EU soured on the US and now you’re telling me that in the EU you don’t look at which party is in charge but at the US as a whole. Do you not see how these statements are contradictory?
There is no contradiction. The relationship is not worse because republicans are in charge but because of what they decided.
Its funny when Eurobros pretend they’re not US lackeys.
If that was the case, why does Trump feels sooooo cheated by Europeans?
He says that because you weren’t paying as much tribute as he would like, which is why he ordered you to increase military spending and y’all went and did it, and then had Mark Rutte kiss his ass in appreciation. 😂
My dear, the NATO military spending has been ignored for long time. Now it was decided to reach it to replace the US that stopped being a reliable partner.
Which is a good thing
No, that one belongs in the shared space too. It was Biden who literally bombed the infrastructure that made it possible for Germany to meet its energy needs without reliance on buying US oil/lng. Who froze all foreign assets that belonged to Afghanistan, essentially stealing billions of dollars that belonged to the Afghani people? Biden. Who froze all Russian assets and tried to make it illegal on a global scale to do business with “the bad guy” state? Biden. And while you may hate Russia if you’re a typical propagandized westerner, that doesn’t mean most of the rest of the world, particularly global south countries, do as well.
From 3 years ago:
That was all thanks to the Democrats during the Biden regime. Trump is putting as many nails into that coffin as he can, but we shouldn’t pretend Republicans are the only ones responsible for showing the world that the dollar is dangerous and the US cannot be trusted.
So you condone genocide as long as it’s done by “communists”. got it.
What genocide and what communists?
Removed by mod
Then I guess Chomsky and the UN OHCHR are Russian trolls as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banderite
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_Ukrainian_Nationalists
you are the troll, lmao
chomsky js right but that doesn’t excuse the russians currently doing much worse shit. being a “communist” country does not excuse your actions.
How do you not know that Russia hasn’t been communist for 33 years?
What the fuck are you talking about?
???
That’s borderline incoherent
sure, explain in detail what part is incoherent
It’s one sentence, and that sentence is incoherent.
No man, sorry. European here and before this last Trump term nobody cared about the US, nor knew what people did over there.
Now we see all the craziness from Harvard to ICE, and the nonsense of vaccines and Medicare. Some people and companies are actively seeking alternatives to American products, we are talking about an European tech stack for the first time, a multi billion program just started to replace US in defence, there are funds specifically designed to attract American scientists, the EU is coming for startups too, and intense chats with Canada, China and others try to replace the US market.
You are free to believe that Dem were the same, but I can assure you that nothing like the last 6 months pushed the EU to break up with the US and stand up alone. Which is great for us in the old continent.
To tell the full story though, there are some EU groups that still try to tighten the bonds with the US. I’m talking about ECR and the Patriots with leaders such as Meloni and Wilders. They are the far right xenophobic homophobic nazi-fascist area that are basically a noisy minority that a few years ago was all for Putin.
I’m also European and this is bullshit lmao
Can you mention past American politics that affected the EU, excluding wars? Anything that sparkled debates and concerns at the level of Trump’s tariffs or declarations about NATO?
Why? Why should wars be excluded?
I say that, before Trump’s mess, in the EU we didn’t care much about what happened in the US or the decision that were taken there, except for wars or exceptional events like 9/11. Am I wrong?
Yes. But how are you justifying that caveat?
Europeans may be a bit slow on the uptake, considering much of Europe is still imperial core and it’s all still the global north, but just because European liberals have been struggling to let go of the propaganda that the U.S. is a benevolent force for “order” in the world doesn’t mean that it is suddenly Trump alone that has irrevocably damaged U.S. soft power as well as a positive image of the U.S. in Europe.
More examples of issues that were major in the “discourse” under Biden (and earlier). Come on.
And a lot of this takes longer planning than just the 6 months Trump has been in office again. You may not have been aware of it, but many were (I may not be a European, but I have been speaking with plenty of them especially since February of '22). The U.S. has been advertising the fact that its is tightening its leash on its vassals (you Europeans) for a while now, which in turn is unintentional but unconcealable admission that its empire is struggling. Those with eyes to see it, and there are many, most certainly have been watching since long before Trump. I won’t argue that Trump hasn’t ramped it up in terms of how blatant it is with his overt buffoonery and open fascism (as opposed to the Democrat’s false pretense of not being fascist), but to say it’s something that the Democrats do not share in, or haven’t deeply contributed to just as Trump has, well you’re burying your head in the sand.
I honestly don’t mean offense by this because it is so heavily dependent on what you hear in your MSM, but you and those who think this is new are slow on the uptake when compared to Europeans who closely follow this sort of thing, and Europe on the whole considering its relationship to US imperialism is going to be slow on the uptake compared to the rest of the world. And if we’re talking about the rest of the world beyond Europe already knowing these things, well let me just say: BRICS+. But honestly, if you think that even European leaders didn’t take a major fucking lesson from the blowing up of Nordstream, you’re… well, I guess just living under the same rock most of the population who gets their news from major outlets are living under - still doesn’t change the fact that the absolute dismantling of U.S. soft power and power projection (as “defenders” or as a country with whom deals and promises will be kept) is 100% a bipartisan project.
One characteristic of the European politics is that it’s slow. Painfully slow. With 27 countries with veto power and different interests it is certain that at any time you will have any possibility on the table together with its opposite.
Making an EU independent from the US has been certainly a dream for several groups since decades. The idea never got much traction because it seemed more convenient to go in the direction of a single market with the US for some kind of goods.
That was true until Trump’s second term with the tariffs, the NATO power play, and the BS around Greenland. Now there is no doubt that the EU should seek independence from the US and seek agreements with Canada and China first. The only question is how quickly it should be done because some countries (like Germany, Italy and Greece) have more to lose than others and there is the issue with Ukraine.
That said, you are free to think that with Biden it was all the same (or even worse).
it’s slow unless it’s about increasing military spending and support for Israel, then it’s very fast!
The glacial pace of European politics helps prove my point. The fact that the pace is slightly quickening may or may not be because of Trump - like I said, I certainly wouldn’t argue against his undeniable increasing of the already rapidly deteriorating global image of the US as being trustworthy, but the whole point is that that deterioration was already happening when he got into office. Your original position is that it was not, that the Europeans feeling that the US cannot be trusted anymore and that the image of the dollar’s supremacy was waning, that all of that rests entirely on the shoulder of the Republicans when that is just demonstrably not true.
You’re shifting the goalposts a bit there, since I never claimed it was “the same” only that it was already clearly well underway, which I have maintained throughout. Yes, I am free to recognize the objective reality of the situation, just as you are free to, for whatever odd reason, push against it to mistakenly insist that Trump is some sudden and unique outlier in the collapse of US image and power projection when that has demonstrably been going on since before him and will continue after, even if he is ramping up the rate of deterioration.
It’s funny because while we both acknowledge that we can have different opinions, you imply that mine is totally wrong.
Before Trump 2 the US was an ally, the cornerstone of NATO, the place where you want to go to have some kind of career, and so on. We can argue that something changed a bit over the decades, but America was always America. Even during Trump’s first term, for us at least, it was business as usual (despite lots of negative forecasts).
In the last few months all that certainty became questionable at least. I see a remarkable shift in politics, public opinion, and risk assessment at work. “Going European” is a widespread idea. Replacing the US in defence is now for the first time in history a funded project with an end date and clear objectives, including nuclear defence. Quite a few websites emerged to help consumers “buy European” or “check if it’s American”. For the first time in my life, boycotting US is no more something for rebellious teenagers full of ideologies, and people are at work to create here those things that we used to “just buy” from the US. The EU put on the table “the bazooka”: a legal instrument created to kick out China from the continent and that now some (like France) want to use against Trump.
But yeah, you can think that it all started years ago and that I have a secret agenda to defend Biden. Sure, why not?
As opposed to fucking what? Implying their own opinion is wrong? Implying that two mutually exclusive things are simultaneously true? The very definition of having an opinion means you think opposing opinions are wrong!
The world is rarely black and white. Have a nice life.