Here’s the original poll, taken by a Czech firm. Specifically, 28% said they were better off under socialism, and only 23% said they are better off now. This is simple, direct, and irrefutable.
Electoral results in a parliamentary system are complex. People don’t just vote for what they agree with, they vote for whichever party they believe has the best chance of winning and representing their interests to an okay degree. Additionally, as a capitalist state, pro-communist media is censored and minimized.
The evidence of the electoral results do not change the fact that more people said they were better off under socialism than those who said they are better off now. These are not contradictory facts, yet they claimed it as a definitive proof of the Czech poll being falsified, despite not at all being the same question or conditions.
See this is why I didn’t want to throw polls at each other. Now I made you click one link deeper into your article and suddenly the graphic in the first poll where it says 45% people say they are better off now and 39% say they are worse now turned into a statistic where 28% say they were better off in the past regime and 23% say they are better off now.
Which one is the irrefutable one you are talking about. I’m confused.
Maybe its better to stick with the election results they aren’t as easily misrepresented.
Only really naive people from countries that never experienced the “beauty” of communism can support it.
what we can say is that in reality, ppl aren’t voting for the communists, even if a poll from 2011 shows that 28% of 623 Czechs said they preferred it under Communism. A very similar 23% say the exact opposite, and 17% aren’t sure. the rest don’t answer.
the poll doesn’t really show anything of substance, but you USE IT as a way to try and manipulate ppl into thinking Eastern Europe wants Communism back.
The poll absolutely shows substance, it shows that of a large sample size, more said they were better off under socialism than those that said they are better off now. Further, Czechoslovakia is one former socialist state. Across the board, results are similar or even more in favor of socialism. This makes sense, with the dissolution of socialism, 7 million people died around the world. Poverty, disparity, drug abuse, prostitution, human trafficking, and more skyrocketed, while life expectancy, literacy rates, and quality of life in general fell, for the vast majority of society while a scarce few benefited massively.
It isn’t at all disingenuous. Using results from complex parliamentary elections as a way to disprove straightforward polls that ask very simple questions is disingenuous.
Am I wrong that the vast majority of the communist movement internationally largely has similar views to mine?
Am I wrong that electoral results are far more complex than a clear-cut “are you doing better or worse under capitalism than under socialism?”
Is there some fourth thing you think is divorced from reality?
I’m not going to just let this go, you came here specifically to discredit and insult me, I’m going to defend myself. You don’t just get to show your ass, claim I’m the one divorced from reality, then leave when it’s clear that your comments aren’t having the intended effects. If you want to stop responding, that’s your right, just like it’s mine to clear my name from baseless accusations and generic anti-communism.
they are having the intended effect. you reveal the thinness of your position, and the absurdity of how you cling deriving large claims from a tiny poll from 2011 rather than the repeatable, impactful, society-wide “polls” that happen regularly called elections.
THAT’S how you’re divorced from reality, JUST TO START.
the fact that you can’t see that, and consider your position even remotely serious, is why this conversation isn’t worth the time.
ppl who are the fence should know what kind of a crackpot you are, and it’s not because you’re a communist.
Elections are not polls. Elections are more complex, driven by which party has a greater chance of making an impact. Smaller parties tend to get fewer votes not because their positions are unpopular, but because their capacity to make change is smaller. Furthermore, Marxists are, in general, against electoralism. This is fundamental to Marxism.
sample size of 400 will give you a confidence interval of +/-5% 19 times out of 20 (95%)
A sample size of 1000 will give you a confidence interval of +/-3% 19 times out of 20 (95%)
This is basic statistics. If you aren’t familiar enough with polling to understand degrees of confidence, then you aren’t in a position to argue against the validity of polling based on sample size.
Finally, if you check the up/downvote ratios, it seems pretty much nobody is agreeing with you and everyone is agreeing with me. Your comments are having the opposite effect, they are legitimizing me. People on the fence seem to be siding with me.
Here’s the original poll, taken by a Czech firm. Specifically, 28% said they were better off under socialism, and only 23% said they are better off now. This is simple, direct, and irrefutable.
Electoral results in a parliamentary system are complex. People don’t just vote for what they agree with, they vote for whichever party they believe has the best chance of winning and representing their interests to an okay degree. Additionally, as a capitalist state, pro-communist media is censored and minimized.
The evidence of the electoral results do not change the fact that more people said they were better off under socialism than those who said they are better off now. These are not contradictory facts, yet they claimed it as a definitive proof of the Czech poll being falsified, despite not at all being the same question or conditions.
See this is why I didn’t want to throw polls at each other. Now I made you click one link deeper into your article and suddenly the graphic in the first poll where it says 45% people say they are better off now and 39% say they are worse now turned into a statistic where 28% say they were better off in the past regime and 23% say they are better off now.
Which one is the irrefutable one you are talking about. I’m confused.
Maybe its better to stick with the election results they aren’t as easily misrepresented.
Only really naive people from countries that never experienced the “beauty” of communism can support it.
No, again, the original comment:
what we can say is that in reality, ppl aren’t voting for the communists, even if a poll from 2011 shows that 28% of 623 Czechs said they preferred it under Communism. A very similar 23% say the exact opposite, and 17% aren’t sure. the rest don’t answer.
the poll doesn’t really show anything of substance, but you USE IT as a way to try and manipulate ppl into thinking Eastern Europe wants Communism back.
it’s disingenuous.
The poll absolutely shows substance, it shows that of a large sample size, more said they were better off under socialism than those that said they are better off now. Further, Czechoslovakia is one former socialist state. Across the board, results are similar or even more in favor of socialism. This makes sense, with the dissolution of socialism, 7 million people died around the world. Poverty, disparity, drug abuse, prostitution, human trafficking, and more skyrocketed, while life expectancy, literacy rates, and quality of life in general fell, for the vast majority of society while a scarce few benefited massively.
It isn’t at all disingenuous. Using results from complex parliamentary elections as a way to disprove straightforward polls that ask very simple questions is disingenuous.
Sure, Jan.
…Jan?
it’s an old meme.
point is, you’re too divorced from reality. but neither of us will change our position, so just forget it and move on.
Where, exactly, am I divorced from reality?
Is the poll I linked fake?
Am I wrong that the vast majority of the communist movement internationally largely has similar views to mine?
Am I wrong that electoral results are far more complex than a clear-cut “are you doing better or worse under capitalism than under socialism?”
Is there some fourth thing you think is divorced from reality?
I’m not going to just let this go, you came here specifically to discredit and insult me, I’m going to defend myself. You don’t just get to show your ass, claim I’m the one divorced from reality, then leave when it’s clear that your comments aren’t having the intended effects. If you want to stop responding, that’s your right, just like it’s mine to clear my name from baseless accusations and generic anti-communism.
they are having the intended effect. you reveal the thinness of your position, and the absurdity of how you cling deriving large claims from a tiny poll from 2011 rather than the repeatable, impactful, society-wide “polls” that happen regularly called elections.
THAT’S how you’re divorced from reality, JUST TO START.
the fact that you can’t see that, and consider your position even remotely serious, is why this conversation isn’t worth the time.
ppl who are the fence should know what kind of a crackpot you are, and it’s not because you’re a communist.
Elections are not polls. Elections are more complex, driven by which party has a greater chance of making an impact. Smaller parties tend to get fewer votes not because their positions are unpopular, but because their capacity to make change is smaller. Furthermore, Marxists are, in general, against electoralism. This is fundamental to Marxism.
The sample size in the Czech poll was large enough for a coherent view of general opinions. Most professional polls are between 400 and 1000 samples:
This is basic statistics. If you aren’t familiar enough with polling to understand degrees of confidence, then you aren’t in a position to argue against the validity of polling based on sample size.
Finally, if you check the up/downvote ratios, it seems pretty much nobody is agreeing with you and everyone is agreeing with me. Your comments are having the opposite effect, they are legitimizing me. People on the fence seem to be siding with me.
The fact that you just keep doubling down here is absolutely hilarious. Just take the L and move on bud.