Free thinker: “Okay the US lies about a lot of things, but they’re definitely not lying to us about communism. Why would they even do that”
Free thinkers can also say “communism is good.”
only if they are actual free thinkers
my bad, I didn’t see the quotation marks on “‘Free-thinker.’” Thought this was just a meme against thinking freely for some reason.
oh its actually an old meme template that makes the rounds sometimes, usually making fun of “free thinking” conspiracists.
I hear that it’s bad.
I do think the us has an unhealthy obsession with communism but I don’t think any radicalism is good. A bit of capitalism with a lot of social policies and laws focused in keeping everyone in line would be better
Why is radicalism bad? A viewpoint being closer or fartger from the median viewpoint in society has no bearing on its correctness or incorrectness. At one point, heliocentrism was radical, most people used to see the Earth as the center of the solar system. At one point, abolition of slavery was radical. Radicalism isn’t bad in and of itself.
As for the system you describe, it’s just not possible. In a capitalist economy, ie one where the large firms and key industries are privately owned, through ownership of the economic base the bourgeoisie has control of the political arms of society, the state. As such, regulation will only be with the explicit consent and approval of the bourgeoisie, including at the expense of lesser capitalists and of course the working class. The system cannot genuinely be tweaked into working better, even the Nordic countries are decaying, and they already depend on imperialism to function.
What works is socialism, ie public ownership of the large firms and key industries, with the working class in control. Rather than the ruthless nature of monopolized markets, we should work towards collectivizing and planning the economy. Humanity can become the masters of its destiny, rather than profit. In time, this results in gradual sublimation of all property, until all of production is collectivized and classes cease to exist, ie communism.
Im not sure how to properly quote here (pls educate me) but regarding this:
“A viewpoint being closer or fartger from the median viewpoint in society has no bearing on its correctness or incorrectness.”
This is inherrently correct. This of course applies to both the middle or the edges of the political and economic spectrum. I think what they and I are arguing is that the “median” tends to be more acceptable for a majority, which is sort of the point.
I for one think that the state should own and exercise control over necessities or “key” industries as you describe them. But I also think it has no business sticking it’s ugly nose in the property I own. Sure - tax the shit out of me if I’m super rich, but that is it.
I’m a materialist, not an idealist. If a stance is correct, then it should be pushed for, regardless of its acceptability. In tine, through testing theory to practice, acceptability will rise. Commandism and tailism are wrong, but pushing for the correct line is correct.
As for the state owning the large firms and key industries, and allowing the bourgeoisie only small and medium firms (and siezing them if they grow to be large), is socialism, which is the path to communism. The state does not need your toothbrush, but if you own a large company? Too bad.
This is the way in my opinion. Proper anti-monopoly laws, solid progressive taxation, public (state) control of the “necessities” such as electricity and water, a working social security system, free education and healthcare while maintaining private medical practicioners and schools as an co-existing paid alternative.
There is no chance of genuine “anti-monopoly laws” in an economy where the bourgeoisie is in control of the large firms. Even if necessities are publicly owned, the proletariat and even lesser bourgeoisie lose out in influence over the state, lacking the political control to enact such laws that directly go against the most powerful in society. The only way is socialism, which requires that not just the necessities, but also the large firms be publicly owned, and the medium firms tightly controlled by the state.
Replace western media for US media. Only the US is obsessed with communism.
Czechia just banned communism
That’s dealing with it, not obsessing over it.
nazi.world strikes again
I should really block jackeroni
This is not even funny anymore
it’s not supposed to be funny it’s explicitly calling you out
Now do this meme with any country in Eastern Europe that actually has experienced communism after ww2. Bonus point if you pick one where the USSR has placed their troops to “prevent regime change instigated by foreigh agents and protect the people from a civil war”.
Slavic brothers came to aid us with their tanks. Lol.
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Polls shows that 71% of Brazilian population wants 5 day work week instead of 6, Brazilian people voted for a bunch of centrist/right wing fuckers that doesn’t want to end the 6 day work week. What people wants and what people vote is not always the same for a bunch of reasons.
The poll is not wrong. Electoral results in a parliamentary system do not reflect whether people feel that the system is working better or worse than before. Even if the communist party won full seats, it still would not be able to bring back the Soviet Union.
This is just you refusing to grapple with real statistics, saying they must be faked because an entirely different set of circumstances had a different set of results. I just hope you tried to mislead people accidentally.
What of the soviet union? We were never part of the Soviet Union. We were just occupied by it’s soldiers. (Oh no, did they really do that? That was not nice.)
There is no Soviet Union to bring back for Czech people. The poll is refering to the communist regime in Czech Republic.
Turns out only ca 3% of the voters wanted the communist party to have a say in how the country should be run and didnt win any seats.
Sad trombone noises
Here’s the original poll, taken by a Czech firm. Specifically, 28% said they were better off under socialism, and only 23% said they are better off now. This is simple, direct, and irrefutable.
Electoral results in a parliamentary system are complex. People don’t just vote for what they agree with, they vote for whichever party they believe has the best chance of winning and representing their interests to an okay degree. Additionally, as a capitalist state, pro-communist media is censored and minimized.
The evidence of the electoral results do not change the fact that more people said they were better off under socialism than those who said they are better off now. These are not contradictory facts, yet they claimed it as a definitive proof of the Czech poll being falsified, despite not at all being the same question or conditions.
See this is why I didn’t want to throw polls at each other. Now I made you click one link deeper into your article and suddenly the graphic in the first poll where it says 45% people say they are better off now and 39% say they are worse now turned into a statistic where 28% say they were better off in the past regime and 23% say they are better off now.
Which one is the irrefutable one you are talking about. I’m confused.
Maybe its better to stick with the election results they aren’t as easily misrepresented.
Only really naive people from countries that never experienced the “beauty” of communism can support it.
No, again, the original comment:
The majority of people that lived in the Soviet Union want it back.
Additionally, over 90% of Chinese citizens support their system.
Only really naive people from countries that never experienced the “beauty” of communism can support it.
People already showed you several polls, of people who currently or previously experienced communism, which say otherwise, so why are you still posting nonsense like this?
no, that’s him showing you reality and you rejecting it.
Here’s the original poll, taken by a Czech firm. Specifically, 28% said they were better off under socialism, and only 23% said they are better off now. This is simple, direct, and irrefutable.
Electoral results in a parliamentary system are complex. People don’t just vote for what they agree with, they vote for whichever party they believe has the best chance of winning and representing their interests to an okay degree. Additionally, as a capitalist state, pro-communist media is censored and minimized.
The evidence of the electoral results do not change the fact that more people said they were better off under socialism than those who said they are better off now. These are not contradictory facts, yet they claimed it as a definitive proof of the Czech poll being falsified, despite not at all being the same question or conditions.
See this is why I didn’t want to throw polls at each other. Now I made you click one link deeper into your article and suddenly the graphic in the first poll where it says 45% people say they are better off now and 39% say they are worse now turned into a statistic where 28% say they were better off in the past regime and 23% say they are better off now.
Which one is the irrefutable one you are talking about. I’m confused.
Maybe its better to stick with the election results they aren’t as easily misrepresented.
Only really naive people from countries that never experienced the “beauty” of communism can support it.
No, again, the original comment:
The majority of people that lived in the Soviet Union want it back.
Additionally, over 90% of Chinese citizens support their system.
what we can say is that in reality, ppl aren’t voting for the communists, even if a poll from 2011 shows that 28% of 623 Czechs said they preferred it under Communism. A very similar 23% say the exact opposite, and 17% aren’t sure. the rest don’t answer.
the poll doesn’t really show anything of substance, but you USE IT as a way to try and manipulate ppl into thinking Eastern Europe wants Communism back.
it’s disingenuous.
The poll absolutely shows substance, it shows that of a large sample size, more said they were better off under socialism than those that said they are better off now. Further, Czechoslovakia is one former socialist state. Across the board, results are similar or even more in favor of socialism. This makes sense, with the dissolution of socialism, 7 million people died around the world. Poverty, disparity, drug abuse, prostitution, human trafficking, and more skyrocketed, while life expectancy, literacy rates, and quality of life in general fell, for the vast majority of society while a scarce few benefited massively.
It isn’t at all disingenuous. Using results from complex parliamentary elections as a way to disprove straightforward polls that ask very simple questions is disingenuous.
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I’m indeed a known Marxist-Leninist, I’m a spooky scary socialist that encourages people to read Marx. I support socialism, and advocate for it.
this is the kind of reply where you undercut your own work. be better.
In what way? You’re complaining about me being a communist, so I just responded by saying I’m indeed a communist and I don’t hide it, no matter how scary you try to make me seem. If you have issues with what I say, address them directly.
i didn’t complain about you being a communist.
I cant speak for the chinese, but the data presented in the first article for czech republic is wrong.
I do not mean to discredit any poll in that article as i am sure we could be throwing polls at each other all day and it would be pointless.
Instead lets have a look at our parliament who the people actually voted for:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_the_Czech_Republic
Communists dint make it into the government. But oh look. There arent even any communist MPs in the opposition.
How is this possible that there are no communist MPs when there are 200 seats in the parliament? Odd. It must be because there isnt a communist party.
Weird. There is one.
It just didnt score a single fucking seat. How is that possible when a majority of the people want the regime back?
Seems like “a majority of the people want it back” claim is simply incorrect. Despite what your little article says.
I just hope you tried to mislead people accidentally.
The poll is not wrong. Electoral results in a parliamentary system do not reflect whether people feel that the system is working better or worse than before. Even if the communist party won full seats, it still would not be able to bring back the Soviet Union.
This is just you refusing to grapple with real statistics, saying they must be faked because an entirely different set of circumstances had a different set of results. I just hope you tried to mislead people accidentally.
Here’s the original poll, taken by a Czech firm. Specifically, 28% said they were better off under socialism, and only 23% said they are better off now. This is simple, direct, and irrefutable.
Electoral results in a parliamentary system are complex. People don’t just vote for what they agree with, they vote for whichever party they believe has the best chance of winning and representing their interests to an okay degree. Additionally, as a capitalist state, pro-communist media is censored and minimized.
The evidence of the electoral results do not change the fact that more people said they were better off under socialism than those who said they are better off now. These are not contradictory facts, yet they claimed it as a definitive proof of the Czech poll being falsified, despite not at all being the same question or conditions.
Meanwhile in the real world
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Former Soviet Countries See More Harm From Breakup https://news.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx
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I don’t know how you can say this when eastern europe is overall in a terrible shape nowadays.
Oof even for your trash memes, this is awful… Damn… Aren’t you embarrassed? Awful… Just straight garbage…
.world, opinion discarded
Unfortunately, .worlders cannot see Lemmygrad.ml comments, comrade.
worlders are so incredibly fragile
For sure.
Why do you people always talk like the most insufferable losers imaginable?
Communism is good, actually.
Sadly this is only true on paper. Communist reality is not that good. This is probably why the meme targets the US audience who never experienced any of it.
This is the most cliche criticism of communism there is.
Step up your game.
What exactly makes this a cliche? Is it because a lot of people who experienced communism keep saying it? I wonder why that may be.
This isn’t a game. This is reporting personal experience. If you have a better experience with communism - lucky you. A lot of people here also had a positive one. Mostly these were communist party officials. Or people who secretly told the authorities about their neighbor’s “subversive” and “anti-regime” activities.
I’d like discourage anybody from trying to use communism as a system in their country. It may seem like a good idea, but it isn’t.
No, again, the original comment:
The majority of people that lived in the Soviet Union want it back.
Additionally, over 90% of Chinese citizens support their system.
The majority of people who lived in the USSR think it was a better system than today. The vast majority of the PRC is happy with their system. Personal anecdotes does not trump actual facts and statistics.
So if I now go through the trouble to find a more recent statistic from the Czech Republic than the one you have from 2011 you will agree that the idea of reviving the communist regime isn’t popular here? Right?
If it’s something completely different, like the electoral results you’ve already shown, deleted, then shown again repeatedly, then no, I won’t agree. I do agree that it’s a comicated subject, especially because a small number of people have benefited massively due to the reintroduction of capitalism, and these people have control of the state and the media. However, even if you were able to prove that about the Czech Republic, there’s still all of the other states, plus the fact that the PRC is currently at over 90% approval rates.
No, again, the original comment:
The majority of people that lived in the Soviet Union want it back.
Additionally, over 90% of Chinese citizens support their system.
I don’t know how many times you need to read these stats, but socislism is popular among those who live in it.
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Look at this freethinker over here
