152·1 hour agoSince we’re starting this debate again, I do wish to ask the people that think the Soviets shouldn’t have gone into Poland: what should the Soviets have done?
With benefit of hindsight and access to whatever formerly-secret documents, what is the best course of action for them?
should the Soviets have done?
Not committed war crimes? Amazing that [email protected] & [email protected] can’t wrap their head around war crimes being bad regardless of who commits them.
With benefit of hindsight and access to whatever formerly-secret documents, what is the best course of action for them?
I’m not going to armchair debate about human atrocities. Thats fucked up.
I’m asking those that believe the Soviets shouldn’t have entered. You seem to believe that the Soviets should, but that they should not have done war crimes. And I would agree, not that I have any knowledge of that, but I am not asking you.
Uhhh Russia invaded unoccupied Poland at the same time as Nazi Germany.
While it’s inaccurate to characterize them as “victims of communism” it’s full blown anti-intellectualism, and astonishingly disrespectful to the polish people, to deny their suffering under Soviet occupation.
The Soviet Union largely stuck to areas Poland had invaded and annexed a few decades earlier, and did so largely to prevent the Nazis from taking all of Poland. Genuinely, what should the Soviet Union have done instead? Let the Nazis take all of Poland?
Oh, it all makes sense now, here you are denouncing Palestine Action for breaking the law in order to slow down genocide. You’re actually a fascist.
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Most of the area the Soviets took are areas in modern Lithuania and Ukraine. Poland had annexed them in the Polish-Soviet War and the Polish-Lithuanian War earlier.
As for the second question, no, I’m not a sociopath, I’m genuinely asking you if you would have rather had the Nazis take all of Poland.
Oh, it all makes sense now, here you are denouncing Palestine Action for breaking the law in order to slow down genocide. You’re actually a fascist.
I’m genuinely asking you if you would have rather had the Nazis take all of Poland.
Than youre a moron or an asshole because that is not a good faith question.
It’s entirely good-faith, and you don’t need to resort to insults to avoid it. What should the USSR have done? The west already rejected the USSR’s pleas for an anti-Nazi pact, and the Nazis had already taken the vast majority of Poland.
Oh, it all makes sense now, here you are denouncing Palestine Action for breaking the law in order to slow down genocide. You’re actually a fascist.
It’s entirely good-faith
Sounds like something a sociopath would say after trying to convince someone war crimes were justifiable cuz of the existence of other war crimes.
You deserve to be insulted for what you’re saying -Po polsku.
You quite literally claimed the Soviets “out-Nazi’d the Nazis.” You aren’t being a serious person, and you’re hiding behind ableist insults. What about the Lithuanians and Ukrainians annexed by Poland?
Oh, it all makes sense now, here you are denouncing Palestine Action for breaking the law in order to slow down genocide. You’re actually a fascist.
Soviets took over 52% of Poland. Your argument is extremely fucking invalid.
Genuinely, what should the Soviet Union have done instead? Let the Nazis take all of Poland?
Jfc you are sociopath aren’t you? False Dichotomy of the century! Heres a fuckin idea… NOT DO ALL THIS SHIT??
In total, the Soviets killed tens of thousands of Polish prisoners of war. Many of them, like General Józef Olszyna-Wilczyński, captured, interrogated and shot on 22 September, were killed during the 1939 campaign.[22][23] On 24 September, 1939, the Soviets killed 42 staff and patients of a Polish military hospital in the village of Grabowiec, near Zamość.[24] The Soviets also executed all the Polish officers they captured after the Battle of Szack, on 28 September.[25]
by January 1940 the NKVD’s campaign was also directed against potential allies, including Polish Communists and Socialists. Those arrested included Władysław Broniewski, Aleksander Wat, Tadeusz Peiper, Leopold Lewin, Anatol Stern, Teodor Parnicki, Marian Czuchnowski and many others.[28] The Soviet NKVD executed about 65,000 imprisoned Poles after being subjected to show trials.[17]
Approximately 100,000 Polish citizens were arrested during the two years of Soviet occupation.[31] The prisons soon got severely overcrowded, with all detainees accused of anti-Soviet activities.[17] The NKVD had to open dozens of ad-hoc prison sites in almost all towns of the region.[32] The wave of arrests and mock convictions contributed to the forced resettlement of large categories of people (“kulaks”, Polish civil servants, forest workers, university professors, “osadniks”) to the Gulag labour camps and exile settlements in remote areas of the Soviet Union.
No youre right. Their only option was to out Nazi the Nazis.
JFC humanity is cooked.
Most of the area the Soviets took are areas in modern Lithuania and Ukraine. Poland had annexed them in the Polish-Soviet War and the Polish-Lithuanian War earlier.
As for the second question, no, I’m not a sociopath, I’m genuinely asking you if you would have rather had the Nazis take all of Poland.
Oh, it all makes sense now, here you are denouncing Palestine Action for breaking the law in order to slow down genocide. You’re actually a fascist.
You are doing holocaust trivialization with that second-to-last paragraph. While the things listed are bad, they are by no means worse than the Nazis.
That’s not what I said. You’re jumping to conclusions, putting words in someone’s mouth, and engaging in a brain rotten way of interacting with people.
You literally just called someone a sociopath.
World War II began with a coordinated attack on Poland conducted by the Third Reich and the USSR, led by Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin respectively. As of 1 September 1939, the very first day of World War Two, both totalitarian regimes held joint military action against Poland. Starting from 1 September, German bombers were guided onto their targets in Poland from a radio station located in Minsk
In accordance with the secret protocol as to Hitler-Stalin Pact, also known as the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, the new allies – Germany and the Soviet Union – were to jointly invade Poland. Red Army troops were to march into Poland three days following the Reich’s attack. Joseph Stalin, however, did not adhere to the protocol, with his troops advancing into Poland only 17 days after the Germans hit. The delay was caused by concerns over the propaganda discourse in the West, which Stalin wanted to focus on Germany solely.
The class struggle is a cornerstone of Karl Marx’s philosophy. It requires a restructuring of society in accordance with communism. When put in practice, this brought about genocide: the killing of 10 to 15 percent of a given society as well as annihilating its elites and those strata of society that were unwelcome in a communist state. For communists they stood in the way of communist rule and of harnessing entire societies under a totalitarian regime.
The communists spent the decade prior trying to form an anti-Nazi coalition force, such as the Anglo-French-Soviet Alliance which was pitched by the communists and rejected by the British and French. The communists hated the Nazis from the beginning, as the Nazi party rose to prominence by killing communists and labor organizers, cemented bourgeois rule, and was violently racist and imperialist, while the communists opposed all of that.
When the many talks of alliances with the west all fell short, the Soviets reluctantly agreed to sign a non-agression pact, in order to delay the coming war that everyone knew was happening soon. Throughout the last decade, Britain, France, and other western countries had formed pacts with Nazi Germany, such as the Four-Power Pact, the German-French-Non-Agression Pact, and more. Molotov-Ribbentrop was unique among the non-agression pacts with Nazi Germany in that it was right on the eve of war, and was the first between the USSR and Nazi Germany. It was a last resort, when the west was content from the beginning with working alongside Hitler.
Harry Truman, in 1941 in front of the Senate, stated:
If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don’t want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances.
Not only that, but it was the Soviet Union that was responsible for 4/5ths of total Nazi deaths, and winning the war against the Nazis. The Soviet Union did not agree to invade Poland with the Nazis, it was about spheres of influence and red lines the Nazis should not cross in Poland. When the USSR went into Poland, it stayed mostly to areas Poland had invaded and annexed a few days prior. Should the Soviets have let Poland get entirely taken over by the Nazis, standing idle? The West made it clear that they were never going to help anyone against the Nazis until it was their turn to be targeted.
Anti-communism is a fancy name for fascism.
The black book is some hilarious stuff. They count the hypothetical unborn children of nazis. Also it counts the nazis.
Liberals think this is what WW2 was
